Curse

RazorEdge · Jan 11, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

It's a critical exploit and the people who abused it deserve their ban.

The thing is, I read that a select few bunch knew about this for months. That's a sure way of destroying in-game economy. Now I know why Gemstone and Mallyx green prices got so cheap. They've already made an impact on the global ingame economy.

Azarr#1 · Jan 11, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

if they knew about their bug on november 19th then why didnt they stop and close it then rather then waiting and waiting for more and more people to actually go into the town the glitch of anets is their fault and theirs alone sometimes they should go back into the individual accounts like wow has done and remove the estimated money that they made off of this "supposid Exploit" now why cant anet simply do that rather then banning all these people and ruining their weekend fun.

Sjeng · Jan 11, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

After reading some posts in this giant thread, I'm doubtfull about the way Anet handled this.
117 people who purposely, knowingly, HACKED the GW client? I seriously doubt that's true.
PERM bans for all those who entered this outpost? A bit harsh. There were people among the banned that got transported there in a party, and didn't hack anything. Did they even KNOW it was an exploit??? When IS something an exploit? I can tell you I'd never know if anything is an exploit or not, I know zip about programming, I just play the game.
Was it truly an exploit created by hacking? Or was it a bug that could be exploited by the more computer-savvy players, like Anet has had dozens of allready...

Long story short: Anet should only ban those who actually hacked the client. Prove it before you ban! It was a flaw in Anet's game client imo as the outpost should have been deleted entirely from the client, and I doubt the economic impact is as big as Anet says. They left it in there, so big surprise that someone with some programming knowledge finds a way to get there. Might even have been a few who found a way, but 117? C'mon...

I think the punishment is too harsh and one-sided for the actual impact it has. I mean, who cares really? Sure, ban hackers, but be 100% sure that they ARE in fact hackers before banning 117 people...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Blindbow

Bugs are bugs and the idea behind the EULA is that if you find one you report it right away, they didn't ... and got banned.

I totally disagree with that statement.
It kinda feels like I should now be extremely vigilant when playing their game in case I stumble apon a bug/exploit, and risk getting permbanned. Makes me feel uneasy. I'm not their gametester, I want to play without worrying about Anet's mistakes in the game. And this is not the first time I've had that feeling...

Puritans Aid · Jan 11, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

you guys are completely missing the point of what I am saying, as ussual. Put blinders on a horse, and he only sees straight. Theres Only black and white, not grey. The other colors exist, but shouldnt, because black and whites all you need right? I think your all complete morons. I didnt try to exploit anything. I thought this was part of the game. I admited my noobness on that now, after reading 500 posts on it. OK? Done with that part.

Fact is, we did very well, tell me a guild/team who can kill mallyx in hard mode and not die 2 out of 7 times? thats 5 complete in 7 tries, in hard mode . Show it to me. I will type /bow.

OK moving on a bit. I didnt not make money because I suck etc. I didnt make money because I didnt want to/need to. I didnt know it was a hack/glitch whatever, I didnt understand, what I do now about the quests etc.

OK!

now, I played it lets see maybe 4 to 5 times each time, a total of 25 times max. OK> thats over 2 months. Meaning I CHOSE to only farm this, stupid end boss 5 times total right? Does this make sense to you? 5 times in 2 months? I wasnt trying to EXPLOIT something. I thought it was legit part of game. OK?

I did it as much as I could for fun, then didnt. After 5 runs, of ursan way killing, things just arent much fun anymore, and 5 times in 2 months is very very very normal. I have done URGOZ and the deep simular amounts of times in simular amounts of ALOTED time.

Maybe your missing the point still? I play for fun. The EULA says, KNOWINGLY USED AN EXPLOIT/HACK/3rd person program RIGHT?

I didnt know, yes ok IM A NOOB, but really, it took me 3 years to figure out how to 600 monk.... so idk I guess i am,
but

I certainly didnt go around trying to exploit anything.

Thanks.

Azarr#1 · Jan 11, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

people who are poor are not complaining about the drop in price on the mallyx items or items only the super rich people are complaining about these drops cause that was how they became so rich.

CountAristotle · Jan 11, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

So please stop with the "it's a-net fault, they are innocent etc..." BS they are guilty plain and simple.

Bugs are bugs and the idea behind the EULA is that if you find one you report it right away, they did'nt they exploited it as far as possible and got banned.

GG A-net

----Ok, so all people are guilty.. fine. But shouldn't there be some sort of differetiation between those that unknowingly did a few runs or even knowingly did a few runs.. as opposed to the people who apparently were "getting 8 armbraces over XMas"? Shouldn't there be a realistic scale of ban? Murder > Armed Robbery > Robbery > Theft > Misdemeanor type progression? Maybe not that thorough, obviously, but I can't see how you can lump a person who did it like 6-8 times and maybe didn't know it was an exploit for most of em.. and someone who got like 15 armbraces. I think that is a rather civil question.. hopefully i'll get a rather civil response.

Count Aristotle
--And Jake Steel.. don't presume that just because some people wanted some quick cash in GW [or whatever their reason was].. automatically makes them some awful human beings. I am one of the banned, I have many friends that are banned, and I will vouch for them that they are some of the nicest, family-oriented people I've met in an mmo. Not all, of course. But many. So please don't prejudge or generalize an entire group of people, most of whom you probably have not personally chatted with. Sorry for the rant.

Drop of Fear · Jan 11, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

I've been posting this very same thing over the last few weeks.

The Message has to be VERY CLEAR: people exploiting game-holes, altering the game code to find exploitable game-holes, aswell as people joining their fellow taking advantage of them exploiting HAVE TO BE BANNED.

Should it be necessary to ban few "innocent" people who joined and killed mallyx just once to spot and ban all the serious exploiters, I DONT CARE, BAN THEM ALL.
Else we will always have people who miraculously escaped the ban-axe and will keep looking for exploits making the game experience unfair for honest players.

i have a incredible amount of maxed titles, a ridiculous amount of hours played over my account. i don't log in the game since early this week because i'm letting it go.
Yet i don't feel the need to try to launch the client and check if my account status is fine, because i never did anything that was close to be ban-worthy. i don't even need to go check if i'm banned because i know that it's technicaly impossible to happen.

A.net does have to protect the game and the honest people playing the game, else the honest people feeling "fooled" would pack their things and their money, and look for another game to play.
Protecting the game sometimes means banning few innocent people to be sure that the hackers/serious exploiters don't have a chance go free? Fair, rest in peace.

CountAristotle · Jan 11, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

My only question is.. [and I know you are squeaky clean, I'll take your word for it].. would you be singing a different toon if by some crap chance you ended up on the innocent end of some vicious perm ban?

And I'm not saying.. let people go free. I'm just saying.. since they know who, how many times, and the other specifics.. can't they really differentiate between "threats" to exploit and people just caught in the stream? I mean, the LEAST anyone should get is a 72 hour ban, up to perm ban IMHO.. but the 72 hour should at least be instituted for those who did very few runs or have a long standing record of squeaky cleanness.

But we'll probably just have to settle to agree to disagree on this.

Count Aristotle
--Banned and feeling it.

Zehnchu · Jan 11, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

~snip~

Here's a secret of why you where banned.

You

Used

An

Exploit

the end.

no...don't think just accept it.

Onyx Blindbow · Jan 11, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

The other thing people are forgetting is that a-net already gave a degree of leniency and didn't just ban every person that went to this hidden city.

They allowed a number of times on the off chance that it was un-intentional, they somehow how just ended up there, they were taken there by party leaders etc...

But once you have been to this place more than say six times, are you still unwittingly being taken there, unaware that you have to do the first 4 quests? NO, in fact the first time you are taken there you are aware of what you are doing in that it is an exploit as you are not having to complete the first 4 quests, sounds harsh? then I'll explain.

the logic behind the exploit was:

1. you had to have completed all the missions and killed mallyx once and have taken the reward for completing the questline and receive your gemset.

2. you take the questline again (i.e you must kill all 4 overlords then kill mallyx)

3. Certain parties were spamming to fast farm mallyx without having to complete first 4 quests, ursan r8+, if you joined the party you were asked if you had already completed mallyx once or you won't be able to be transported.

4. the party leader then "exploited" the game to take you and the rest of the party to a hidden place that allowed you direct access to mallyx again without having to re-do all 4 of the previous quests.

5. you kill mallyx, collect your green and gemset

6. Rinse and repeat

This is exactly how the exploit worked, so how can anyone actually claim any type of innocence in relation to this?

You entered the party knowing full well what was being done and that there was an exploit that allowed you to repeatedly farm mallyx over and over again.

Maybe Gaile should have been clearer and outlined exactly what they had done and it would have stopped a lot of the QQ'ing in this thread.

Someone explain exactly why they shouldn't be banned then please.

garethporlest18 · Jan 11, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

No no no these people weren't banned because they used an exploit, they were banned because they used it multiple times.

I don't care either way, I get happy when people exploit because I want this game to go down in flames, but that's probably cause I dislike all the fanbois and want them to go away.

Regardless Gaile said you were only banned if you did it more than +5 times. So people gotta stop lying. Gaile might not know what she's talking about most of the time but it's their game and they can do whatever they want. However I'm still wondering why the let half of these "morally" good people play the game. Ridiculous spots upon the earth, all of them.

UnKn0wN415 · Jan 11, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Here's a secret of why you where banned.

You

Used

An

Exploit

More

Then

One

Time

the end.

no...don't think just accept it.

edited your post since I think they banned players who has done it more then once...

one of my guild member was in a group who was using the exploit was not banned since he knew something was odd and was smart enough to avoid doing DoA...

MeniaX · Jan 11, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

I can't help but say that I agree with what Anet did here. Ban the majority of the people they can see that did this repeatedly, then let them appeal on a case-by-case situation.

And this is purely for Mickey. You start off with doing it once. Then a few pages later you jumped up to 4 times. Then it was up to 5... By post 332 you were at doing it 6 times. Now you're saying you did it 7 times but it shows 24 times you entered? Honestly, I'm finding it funny.

Magevdon is the Man · Jan 11, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Blindbow

Unaware, please...

They were completely aware of what was going on as it was explained to them as a way to kill mallyx without having to do 4 quests.

a-net already advised it gave some leeway in those that were there a few times (which is more than fair TBH)

The simple truth is the exploit was discovered (call it a glitch or whatever you what to call it but it was an exploit gained originally by modifying the game client and this knowledge was passed onto 2 - 3 other guild leaders) did those people report the exploit to a-net in the hope of a fix? NOPE

They chose to use it to fast farm and flood their accounts with armbraces (as advised before they were spamming "come and farm 8 armbraces in 3 hours" in DoA over xmas) and a number of people signed up with their new guilds.

So please stop with the "it's a-net fault, they are innocent etc..." BS they are guilty plain and simple.

Bugs are bugs and the idea behind the EULA is that if you find one you report it right away, they did'nt they exploited it as far as possible and got banned.

GG A-net

I respect that AreaNet is not entirely to blame for this mishap but conversly they should understand that this does not mean that those 117 are all to blame, or all with malicious intent.

Like in all Gold Rushes people can race in without knowing the consequences of thier actions. Simple truth the outpost should not have been there. And thats where AreaNet comes in plain and simple.

Yes it is not right for people to hack the system - yes those people who hacked knew what they were doing was wrong and violated EULA. But these are usually the crimes of small groups 4 to 5 people not 117.

I bet you anything if it hadn't been done in a "shoot first ask questions later" fashion, it would have been found that many of these people just assumed it was another glitch AreaNet was going to plug sooner or later - not get perma banned for.

There was no forewarning. Trust me my alliance leader would have informed us to stay away from anything that he knew could get us banned. Thankfully I just stick to questing and avoid the rushes. It was a shock to all of us when just your average farmers, looking for the get rich quick flavor of the week, got caught up in all of this and got banned.

These guys aren't hackers - they're die hard Guild Wars fans, who put a lot of effort in thier accounts and now have to stew over whether or not to start over or just move on.

It may be wrong of me I guess to expect the best in people but these guys in my alliance who got banned had already earned my respect. I don't know about the others involved but surely we can't assume that all of them are as you say "guilty plain and simple." Every story is different.

If nothing else, AreaNet should evaluate what determines guilt. If you find someone actually hacking in - not party warping but actually manipulating the game - then punish them. If they feel its an exploit then shut it down with a program. Otherwise just recognize that 999,999 out of 1,000,000 of us are regular joe schmoes and not hacking geniuses with malicious intent.

On a side note:
I wonder if some of the people who post on this forum thread have invested in the Office Space "Jump to Conclusions" Mat. Seems likely.

therangereminem · Jan 11, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

only question i have out of everyone got banned most where mostly rich as all get up,which means one thin how many rare mini are stuck forever on those toons, aka pandas oni and such,

last word i knew about the bug i knew how to do it but knwing it had to be down by one person in the frist place that hacked the lient i knew it had to be serious banning.

only thingi feel sorry for is the pople that didnt start the whole thing but at the very end was with groups that went in, a couple of times, not knowing how the exploit worked,

i think the first 8 to 10 pple who did the exploit should get no mercy they new 100% what they did was worse then any exploit in the game worse then doping.

last thing can the person who frist did this admit to it , and tell the other he is sorry , nope i dont think so

Exx The Necro · Jan 11, 2008, 09:48 AM // 09:48

If GW is going to have areas for "testing" should they not be on a secure server?
I Anet can make a game like Guild Wars should they not be able to tell if ANYONE is hacking the so-called dat.file? I have programs that tell if my comp is being hacked.
I think Anet brings these kind of things on themselves. The economy......please? Anet ruined that themselves, I remember when ecto was worth something. Since Hard mode came out everything has dropped in price, except armor, or anything from merchants for that matter.
So lets ban everyone that did this DOA thing, oh no wait, lets just ban a few, I mean, after all, Anet cant even tell when someone is using a bot or not, lets just pick a number and run with it, 117 sounds like a nice number. I got banned for "botting", took 3 weeks for them to figure out I wasnt. They either need to ban all or none, put their "testing" areas on a secure server and get some real "hacking" detection software, companies the world over use it every day, it cant be that hard to find. Yup, banning 117 people is going to fix the GW economy, I sure hope someone dosnt give me a "Duped" item. OH NO!, I bought the gems needed for a Torment shield several months ago dont ban me!! Oh wait, they did already then unbanned me. Ok, Im done, Im gonna go farm so I can buy something cool and maybe help the deflated GW economy.
I know some of the 117, great people, most have to ask for help sometimes with a mission or whatnot, a true hacker needs no help, most need a weapon or item sometimes, a true hacker needs nothing. Enough said.

Puritans Aid · Jan 11, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

heres the problem with a lot of what I* am seeing. THERES NO 4 QUESTS BEFOR E MALLYX. THERES 1 QUEST!! 1 QUEST!!! it says, YOU MUST KILL, it lists 4 bosses, in 4 areas, then you can kill mallyx. I had killed all 4 of these bosses, and thought I could then kill mallyx. I am a complete noob, and didnt realize, you must apparently do all 4 bosses/hard areas each time? I didnt know this, and I made a net aware of everything I do know/didnt know in a ticket, and am praying for their mercy.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 11, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

The fake town was not a test area, but an internal staging post the game uses on it's way to porting people to Mallyx. It could'nt be removed as it's integral to the way DoA works(as tempting as it sounds to remove doa tho)..

makosi · Jan 11, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I never realised it was an exploit of the client. I thought it was a simple guild-hall glitch (like the 12v12 GvG glitch).

I suppose those who 'abused' it got their commuppance. I'm a firm believer in 'if it seems too good to be true, it most probably is.'

Onyx Blindbow · Jan 11, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

heres the problem with a lot of what I* am seeing. THERES NO 4 QUESTS BEFOR E MALLYX. THERES 1 QUEST!! 1 QUEST!!! it says, YOU MUST KILL, it lists 4 bosses, in 4 areas, then you can kill mallyx. I had killed all 4 of these bosses, and thought I could then kill mallyx. I am a complete noob, and didnt realize, you must apparently do all 4 bosses/hard areas each time? I didnt know this, and I made a net aware of everything I do know/didnt know in a ticket, and am praying for their mercy.

There is 1 questline with 4 sub-quests and the ending of ebony citadel (i.e kill a boss in each of the 4 areas then go and kill mallyx)

unless you are quadrunning ursanway then they are treated as 4 individual quest, noted by ppl spamming "lfg gloom, lfg city, lfg foundry, lfg veil"

that is why people are saying 4 quests.